The darkest blackbag page

As you might know by now Toool members like Han Fey and myself are pretty active writing papers and blog entries on high security locks and bypass techniques. But the fact you are here reading this probably means you know all this.

And when ever we publish something, whether it is about locks or opening methods, we always try to be as accurate as possible and come up with evidence of our claims. And I can tell you it takes lots and lots of time trying to be accurate.

One of the reason for us to want to be so accurate is that we know the complete lock industry is looking over our shoulder. Another reason is that it is directly linked to our name and reputation as we do not hide behind aliases. We are proud of what we write and take full responsibility and credits.

But maybe the most important reason to give full disclosure is to avoid not being taken serious and fueling up endless discussions and speculations about not the fully disclosed facts. In our opinion you either give full disclosure or you keep your mouth shut.

darkest page

Some people have other standards. Take for instance a visitour of the Dutch Open 2006 hiding behind the initials PW.

On the item on this weblog about the RKS system he posted a comment, claiming he opened the RKS lock four times in five minutes. And stating that he is not going to tell us how he did it and wait for the lock to be released, “just like Toool always does” (?)

To me this was like someone was waving a red flag. A big one. But It tried to respond in a calm matter. It was no use.

What happened next is one of the most dark pages of my weblog. An old style flamewar followed, one with no winners.

The silly flamewar kept my mind busy for a long time, consuming lots of cycles that could have better be used doing other, more positive things.

Speaking about what was on my mind with some close friends, I came to the conclusion I will never be provoked to such a nasty flamewar ever again.

From now on I will only respond to online arguments if people back up their claim with as much technical details and facts as we do, preferably under their own name.

12 Responses to “The darkest blackbag page”

  1. André Matuschek says:

    Hi!

    You are completely rigth, barry!
    Always stick to this rule: “Don’t feed the trolls!”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

    If you have a blog or a forum, sooner or later someone will come and state unbelievable things, affront other people and surely he will have the contrary oppinion to a central topic of your blog/forum.
    This is some kind of natural law. An look at PW’s contributions, they completely satisfy all the points from obove.

    So save your time and use it to write you blog, many many people, just as I do, are looking forward to your articles!

    André

  2. Francis says:

    (Wow.. I just lost everything I wrote. The link sorta proves what we’re saying.)
    http://indexed.blogspot.com/2007/02/sometimes-average-is-good.html

    If you have a talent or skill there will always be critics. People who will try to bate you into engaging with them so they can bring you down. You do what you do for you, not for anybody else, so there’s no need to pay any attention to invalid criticism. And while you’re support by nature wont be as vocal, we’re here and we like what you do.

  3. Ridderhenck says:

    Hello Barry,

    sometimes you can compare locks with humans,when you push the right buttons…somehow this person pushed the wrong button,the most important thing is you learned from this bad experience and that,s a good thing!!!!!Keep up the good work,I really enjoy reading your blog!!

  4. Lithium_Trip says:

    My guess is that he was probably a irate locksmith pissed off that ToooL and other similar organizations all made up of hobbyists have been able to become such a invaluable contributor to the security industry and have gained so much fame and popularity. These are the types of people who quirt super glue into the locks of the women they like, follow them home and watch them struggle with the creepy prank you pulled and hope she’ll call him to come to the rescue. Sad.

  5. mouse says:

    Lithium_Trip :

    You are absolutely wrong when you say that ‘pw’ is against those whose interest in locks and lockpicking is a hobby!

    ‘pw’ is most certainy NOT a person who is against helping hobbiests – in fact quite the opposite. ‘pw’ wished to be anonyous here, so I will not elaborate further, but he contributes a lot to the hobby locksmithing community.

    I do not wish to get into any of the arguement that resulted from the RKS posting, I am not saying who is right or who is wrong.

    I do not wish to be a further part of this debate, hence I am using a one-off name for this post.

    I just wish to say that to demonize ‘pw’ and say that he is against lockpicking as a hobby couldn’t be further from the truth.

  6. Han Fey says:

    Hi Mouse,

    Do not make me laugh. He is spreading wrong information about locks. I do not call that helping.

    Everybody who has doubt about my lock knowledge, or see something in my articles which is not correct, can contact me. I stand for what I write or say. If I am wrong I will correct it.

    PW writes:

    – An Geminy shield could be easily manipulated by his words => let him show.

    – There is a bumpkey for the Geminy shield => let him show.

    – He can open the RKS-lock => let him show.

    These not correct things he writes, you call that a contribute to the hobby locksmithing community?

    Anonymous shouting from a dark corner, that is what he can.

    Han

  7. mouse says:

    Han,

    I was not trying to say that ‘pw’ is correct, or in the right.

    Far from it.

    My only intended meaning was that he IS a person who does make an effort, and spends his own time, to try to help hobbyists (and yes, he does make mistakes along the way), as opposed to somebody who hates the lock sport movement, as Lithium_Trip suggested. That was my only point.

    He passed on the information regarding the bumpkey for the Geminy Shield in good faith. Maybe he should be more careful about passing on secondhand information, that he has not verified himself. As for the Geminy being easily manipulated, again, as you said, let him show us.

    I have certainly seen ‘pw’ make other mistakes, elsewhere, but he wasn’t afraid to stand up and say he was wrong.

    To assert that ‘pw’ would deliberately spread misinformation is hard to believe. However, in absence of proof of(or even a description of) his claim against the RKS, I concede that this can be interpreted as deliberate and damaging misinformation(at worst), or as spurious claims made without any proof.

    I agree that spreading wrong information in no way helps the locksport community, however I only stated that ‘pw’ spends some of his own time _trying_ to help. He is not a locksport-hater as made out by Lithium_Trip.

    I can see that this conflict would not happen if people would back up their claims with proof. As you very effectively summarised – “put up or shut up” – I agree with that sentiment 100%.

    Han, I am not trying to speak in favor of ‘pw’ and thus against yourself and Barry – I do not wish to take sides.

    On one hand I have great respect for yourself and Barry, and also for ‘pw’.

    The behavior of ‘pw’ in the RKS thread IS indefensible, and I am not trying to defend the behavior or attitude exhibited there. This was quite a shock to me, and quite disappointing.

    I certainly respect your integrity, Han, you do not hide behind an alias, you stand by what you say, and are willing and open to listen to feedback on the information you publish. I appreciate and thank both you and Barry for that.

    Finally, thankyou for Toool and Blackbag. I have gained much knowledge from Han’s lock breakdown articles & other information made available by Toool. The time you two spend contributing to and advancing the locksport community is commendable.

    I really do not wish to fan the flames of the RKS thread, maybe my expression was unclear in my previous post, and is more clearly expressed herein.

  8. Ridderhenck says:

    I am sure the person in question has read all of this.Let him come forward and proof his words.It can,t be that hard,in my book when you,re wrong about something and you admit it, you,re a standup guy,it takes a big man to admit faults,at least that,s what I truly believe,so please let,s end this and move forwards

  9. Ridderhenck says:

    But if he is right I for one would love to see proof!!!!!!

  10. mh says:

    PW is an honest person, he simply has different motivations. That’s a normal fact of life, opinions and motivations differ between people.

    Quite obviously PW likes to design and *sell* lockpicking tools, and at the same time likes to give comments.
    (Others like John Falle just like to design and sell tools, and don’t give comments. Yet others like to sell locks and give comments, but of course feel bad when the products they like are critized.)

    I think if you invite comments in this blog, just accept that they might not fulfill your standards and agree to disagree.

    Just my EUR0.02…

    mh

  11. Jordy H says:

    I consider myself a good friend of PW.
    He (and one of his friends) trained me personally via instant messaging, email and real life training.
    PW taught me a lot of things one does not learn at that rate when you’re on your own (and if not for him and his friend, alone I’d been).

    Lately, I’ve become a member of TOOOL.
    And I’m really getting in touch with it’s members.
    Being a member really encourages me to put some effort in picking.

    Anyway, Just mentioned that to illustrate that I am familiar with both parties.

    On this particular spat, I’m going to follow the lyrics that a cartain J.L. wrote.
    “Let it be”

    All there is to do really.
    Neither party will give up on it’s grounds, as they both feel that they’re right (and that’s their business, really).
    Therefor, Let’s just stop protecting/attacking TOOOL/PW.

    It’s not constructive and it does not grace anyone.
    All I had to say, really.

    Yours,

    Jordy H

  12. NKT says:

    Well said Jordy.

    No-one has come out of this looking good.

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